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I'm trying to hone my fiction writing as well as hopefully create a longer story. I realize that it's possibly too short to meaningfully comment on, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on the brief scene I posted yesterday. More specifically, there are two things I'd like to ask:

1) How did you find the length of the "Veiran trying to get away from a high place" part? Was it about right, or should I have made the tension last longer? (Did you feel there was any tension in the first place?)

2) Did the scene make you interested in the characters? Suppose you were at a bookstore looking for something to buy and this was the first page of a book you happened to grab and look at. Would you turn the page to read more, put down the book and move on to the next one, or buy the thing?

Don't be kind, don't be mean - be honest. Thanks!

EDIT at 15:31 West Coast Time (GMT -7): I edited the original based on feedback from [livejournal.com profile] alicorn24 and [livejournal.com profile] alekseiriikonen, so if you're commenting, make sure you've read the most recent version!

Date: 2010-06-23 07:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alicorn24.livejournal.com
1. I didn't have a clear picture of the place Veiran was trying not to fall off of. I also didn't care very much if he got to be a Warrior-Saint. What is a Warrior-Saint? Should I feel some way about his ambition to become one, particularly, besides the generic "protagonists of books are to be rooted for in achieving their goals" sentiment? I also felt that the line "That would have been simple enough" was silly. Would it really be simple if, for instance, he were on a sturdy transparent platform that extended off the lip of a cliff? Surely he'd have some trouble? I also can't picture the precise motions you describe him making when he's trying to get away - possibly because I can't picture where he is. (Or how he gets down, once he's away from the edge. Is there a ladder?) This turns it into one of those scenes I skip after I've ascertained the goal (like, so-and-so is fighting such-and-such, each wanting to win, and once I know that, I can usually skip to figuring out who wins, unless there's dialogue. Once I've established that Veiran is trying to get away from a high place, I can skip to the part where he falls or doesn't.)

2. If I didn't know you wrote this, I wouldn't have gotten farther than what you wrote in a bookstore. (Although my behavior in bookstores is strange - I only ever buy things that I have *already read*, or anticipate that I am definitely going to love because the prior book in the series or other work by the author was so good. So if it had your name on it, I might buy it - but then I wouldn't have looked at page one first.) It seems like the Naie's eyes are trying to be significant somehow, but I'm left cold by hints of significance with no suggestion of *how*. Similarly, I can't care about the (shared?) Warrior-Saint related ambition when I have no clue what one of those might be.

Date: 2010-06-23 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
This is excellent feedback. Thank you very much.

I was a bit worried about whether I'd described the situation enough when I wrote that. I've had a bad tendency to do too much info-dumping in long stories in the past, and this isn't the first time that I've over-compensated and ended up with too little information. Let's see. Suppose the story had mentioned a small keep, with three walls on the sides and a steep mountain cliff making up the fourth. Inside the walls are several buildings, the tallest of which is maybe four or five stories tall. Veiran is sitting on the edge of the roof of that one, his feet dangling in the air. Would that have been enough information? (And now that I've described it, I can see that I should definitely have included at least some of that.)

The Warrior-Saint thing was primarily meant to make the reader curious about what that's all about, as well as to give a hint about Veiran's personality (ambitious). It wasn't anything the reader was supposed to really care about yet, as such. The main tension in the scene was intended to come from just the fear of falling, regardless of why exactly he was there. I was hoping that it would make one curious enough to keep reading to find out more, though.

"That would have been simple enough" is silly, on purpose. That one was partially there to show that Veiran's still a kid, and doesn't really always think things through, nor have that good of a concept of how his emotions really work. Maybe that one would have worked better if I'd mentioned his age earlier? Perhaps also make him a bit younger.

I find it interesting that you interpreted there to be a hint of signicance to Naie's eyes. That was another thing that was mostly just there to hint at his personality (innocent and sensitive, even for a child).

Date: 2010-06-23 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alicorn24.livejournal.com
I didn't even know he was outside. Maybe I have the wrong definition of "eave" in my head. Looking it up... Yeah, I had it wrong, I thought eaves were those beams that crisscrossed under roofs to support them. A heuristic that I think is good (although I never use it) is that if you've never heard somebody use a word in conversation, out loud, it shouldn't serve to explain anything in a book. (You can use it, as long as there is abundant context such that you'd still know what was up without it, or if it's in the mouth of a character not meant to be understood.) I don't think the keep part matters - I mean, it may later, but all I needed to know to picture his precarious situation was that he's sitting out on the edge of a roof of a building. I still don't know how he got down once he was away from the edge.

In fewer than a hundred words wherein Naie appears, you mention his eyes twice (once to describe them - as being unusual, moreover - and once when Veiran looks at them). Of course I thought they were significant.

Date: 2010-06-23 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
I didn't even know he was outside.


Ouch.

I made a bunch of edits based on your comments. Is it better now?

(And although I changed it to remove the second mention of Naie's eyes, now I'm thinking if I should make them somehow significant. Thanks for the idea. :)

Date: 2010-06-23 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alicorn24.livejournal.com
"even usually large"

This seems awkward.

"the ladder he'd used to get up here"

This is entirely a pet peeve, not an actual mistake - but I hate indexicals in past-tense fiction. People talking about "here" and "now" surrounded by indications that it's some time ago and elsewhere are jarring.

Date: 2010-06-23 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
This seems awkward.

Do you have a suggestion for a replacement? I think my thoughts are being contaminated by a Finnish sentence structure.

People talking about "here" and "now" surrounded by indications that it's some time ago and elsewhere are jarring.

Good point. I changed that to "the ladder he'd used to get on the roof".

Date: 2010-06-23 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alicorn24.livejournal.com
I think you could cut the phrase altogether. Just "Naie's pupils were leaving hardly any room for the blue in his eyes."

Date: 2010-06-23 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
Hmm. I'd prefer to keep some form of it, but I'll consider just cutting it. Maybe work it in to some later chapter somehow.

Date: 2010-06-23 09:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alekseiriikonen.livejournal.com
1. I think that part was well-written as it is.

2. I don't think I'll buy any fiction book in the foreseeable future, or look for new ones to read, since I already own a backlog (including physical books) of fiction I consider very very good, but don't ever manage to read.


As to comments on other stuff, the sentence that starts with "Though" was such that upon reading I wanted to comment that it doesn't really work as well as some other solution conceivably could. But that was the only part of the thing you posted that made me want to offer constructive criticism, generally I thought the thing was good.

I'm sorry that I'll write this current comment in a rush, and won't now go back to review the "Though-sentence", so I could give more specific feedback on it.

Date: 2010-06-23 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alekseiriikonen.livejournal.com
I'll also quickly note that I mostly disagree with Alicorn's criticism, I felt that I did manage to picture the motions he made and so on.

Date: 2010-06-23 10:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
Thanks! I looked at the "though sentence", and you're right, it didn't really work that well. I'm not sure of what exactly the problem was, either, but in any case I changed it.

Date: 2010-06-24 08:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] armanihq.livejournal.com
I read through the whole thing. That says a lot about its ability to entertain! :D

Since the language used isn't something I'm good enough at to start nitpicking textual expression, I won't do that. (I think that sentence alone shows my lack of expertise. ^^')

If at least one of the boys is gay, hooray! Yes, I'm THAT lame.

Oh, yeah, you asked something..the lenght is good, I'd say. There's no such thing as a fully done script, but this is done enough. I wouldn't buy it, but I don't buy any books. I would request that the library would buy it for me to read, though.

Date: 2010-06-25 06:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
Thanks!
(deleted comment)

Date: 2010-07-01 12:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xuenay.livejournal.com
D'oh. I *so* should have thought about that, but I didn't. You're right, I should mention the slope earlier. Thanks.

This probably isn't going to have any *explicit* lessons (that is, intentional) in rationality, but part of the planned story could probably be interpreted as implicit lessons.

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